Ep 11: Case Study From the Mines to Bush Nurse to Medicine

Mare Forfa (00:16)
Welcome to this week’s episode of Nurses Doing GAMSAT! I have two people here with me today who I’m really, really excited to dive in with. The first one I’ll introduce is Dr Tomasz Forfa—my bestie, partner in life, and partner in crime, some may say. Hey, how are you doing, Tom?

Dr Tom (00:35)
Thanks for having me today, Mare. It’s a real pleasure to be invited back. Yes, you brought me back—you allowed me to come back. I haven’t messed up that badly yet. All good.

Mare Forfa (00:40)
Invited you back to your own podcast! Who knows? I put you on probation every period, that’s the question. And I’m excited to have our special guest here today—Ashleigh Beaman. Welcome aboard! I’m just excited to hear about your story because we’ve known you for a few years now, and you’ve had an incredible journey. So, without me diving into your background—

Dr Tom (00:54)
You should take me off sometime, right? More like, take me off that thing! Woof woof!

Ashleigh (01:08)
Thanks for having me.

Mare Forfa (01:19)
How about you start by telling us—pre-GAMSAT, pre-medicine—what were you doing? What was life like? Tell us everything.

Ashleigh (01:30)
Yeah, cool. All right. Pre-medicine, pre-GAMSAT—I was an ex-military chef who then decided that I wanted to go into nursing, and I just loved it. I loved nursing. Got the dream job straight off the bat, working in a children’s hospital. Then I went off and started working rurally—had a beautiful time, living it up. But then I realised that little piece of me that was like, I want to go back to what I wanted to be when I was a kid—which was a clown doctor.

And, being the stubborn little child I was, when someone told me they weren’t real doctors, I thought, Well, I won’t be a doctor then! If I can’t be a fun, cool clown doctor, I won’t be one at all.

Mare Forfa (02:09)
Amazing!

Dr Tom (02:22)
I don’t know, it depends on who you ask. There are probably a few clown doctors out there.

Ashleigh (02:26)
Yeah, I’ve come across a couple. But I was working full-time in rural areas—Carnarvon, Katherine, and Gove in the Northern Territory—having the most beautiful experiences and really connecting with the community. I loved integrating some bush medicine into the hospital setting. Seeing that in practice was incredible.

Dr Tom (02:39)
Wow, what was that like?

Ashleigh (02:56)
Just great fun. Really rewarding and fulfilling.

Dr Tom (02:59)
Yeah.

Mare Forfa (03:02)
So then—

Dr Tom (03:02)
I think once we talk about your medical school life, it’ll be interesting to hear how that’s impacted it. There’s a lot of teaching on Indigenous communities and being culturally appropriate. It’d be good to hear how your experience plays into that.

Mare Forfa (03:21)
So, you’re like, I can’t be a clown doctor, so screw it, I won’t do it at all. But then something clicked at some point, yeah?

Ashleigh (03:28)
Yeah. Fast forward to working full-time—probably more than full-time, because we were short-staffed as nurses. I was working with some incredible doctors, both male and female, who were role models for me. Some were mature-age students who had gone through postgraduate studies to become doctors while still having families, kids, and beautiful relationships. They were rewriting what I thought a doctor had to be.

And working so closely alongside them in a rural area, I thought, I actually can do that. But I’d always told myself, I can’t do that, I’m too old. I already have a career—my second career. I want a family. I don’t think I’m smart enough. I’d have to go back to not earning money. I had all these doubts and had written it off.

Then, one night on a night shift, I was talking to a midwife friend. We were just toying with the idea, and I sat on it. The next night shift, I came back and said, I think we’re onto something here. A month later, on another night shift, I told her, I’m going to do it. I’m going to sit the GAMSAT and give it a go.

Ashleigh (05:25)

I guess, little bit, one, frustrated in the lack of doctors available to us in Carnarvon at the time. And just that constant turnover of locum doctors. And we were kind of, as you do at 3am when you get a bit delirious, like, what would you be doing if you weren’t doing this? And I was like, I’d toyed with the idea of being a doctor and I, you know, maybe I’ll become a folk singer or a…

Ashleigh (05:55)

Go back to being a really like famous chef or something, all those sorts of things. And she was just really encouraging. And she was like, you would make a great doctor. I was like, yeah, but it’s a lot of like uni and I could like, could see myself in that role. I was like, it’s a lot of responsibility. Do I really want that? I want to have family, want to have kids. That’s a lot of kind of time to sacrifice in that stage. So I’m in my early thirties. So making this decision in my late

Ashleigh (06:26)

20s, I was like, there’s a lot to weigh up there. No, I can’t do it. I was like, I’m not smart enough to do that. I struggle with my day-to-day things that I’m doing, feeling smart enough and worthy enough to be a nurse. And then at the time I was acting as a clinical nurse, which was a big step up for how junior I was and kind of had that imposter syndrome and always have. it was that support and questioning like, why do I want to, why would you want to be a doctor? be that driving force.

Dr Tom (06:57)

Yeah, I often find that someone who’s… but she probably didn’t have an agenda, she didn’t want to push you one way or another, she was just curious, right? Wanted to know about you.

Ashleigh (07:02)

But yeah, which is what we did. then, you know, that conversation turned into what sort of toast you were going to make tonight for dinner.

Dr Tom (07:14)

Another ready Freda forms left, you know, or something like that.

Mare Forfa (07:18)

Totally random, but this is exactly what happened and why Tom proposed to me. I don’t know if I’ve ever shared this story.

Dr Tom (07:22)

Yeah, that’s why I was bringing it up because I was like, find that it’s in those I had a similar it was years down the track down the line. I was an intern in the last rotation. I was on oncology, radiation oncology and I was the intern on the ward and I didn’t have many patients at a time. But if I did, if I had maybe four or five patients, I was really busy because they were really, really sick. So doing outpatient treatment and if I had to come into hospital.

It was bad news. And so anyway, I’ll be sitting in the the tea room having my lunch and just the nurses there in the oncology ward, they’ll just be like, hey, how are you? What are you doing? And just asking all these questions. Oh, I just kind of curious rather than having an agenda. And I think because they’ve seen all this end of life kind of conversations and all this because it is oncology, there is a lot of that stuff. So they really knew how to ask really good questions. And I was just curious and it got me thinking about things in a different way.

I think was shortly after that that I did propose to Mare after many years of not.

Mare Forfa (08:28)

Just like side note, he had told me he’s never getting married, ever. And I was like, well, you know, if I have to be with the man of my dreams, but we don’t get married, like there’s nothing wrong with that. Okay. And I kind of had that, yeah, I wanted the big white wedding. Like I had like dreamed about it for like so long. And then when Tom’s like, never getting married. And I was like, will I, do I want a sack? And I was like, why would I give up like my dream then for like one day to get my, okay. All right. And I just accepted it. And then.

Ashleigh (08:32)

Okay. Just a bit, people.

Mare Forfa (08:58)

Cute oncology team who kind of got him thinking about it.

Dr Tom (09:03)

Yeah, or someone like a colleague or a friend who was just no agenda. Because in the past people have like hammered me like, need to get married, need to do all these things. And I just like resisted, you know. But then someone just asking, curious, just wanting to know, what’s your thinking?

Mare Forfa (09:18)

Gets you thinking for yourself.

It’s like so similar, different circumstance, obviously, different life decision.

Dr Tom (09:23)

Yeah, that’s what’s going on. But still a big decision, though.

Ashleigh (09:28)

Married to men at the moment, so…

Mare Forfa (09:31)

So then you’re working rarely. You’re like, okay, I’m going to do this. like, and actually before I move on, so many of our previous guests have talked about this. I’m not smart enough, imposter syndrome. It’s like this theme that I’m seeing. So I’m glad that you brought it up because anyone that’s listening right now is going to be able to go, well, she had that and she could do it. So maybe I can do it too. Like, It’s okay. You can have imposter syndrome and I feel like you’re not enough and still achieve your goals, which I absolutely love. So tell us what happened then. You’re like, okay, I’m to do this horrible exam. What happened?

Ashleigh (10:12)

I looked back and I go, I so was not in the right head space to sit that sort of exam. But I think I booked it for 12 months down the track and started to get into some study, did it independently. I was like, I can do this, got a few resources online, had good support from the people that were around me. I called my best friend who was actually there at the time and

She’s also a GP and I’m like, I can I borrow your 10 year old who’s really good at like science and he’s got a whiz brain. I’m like, I need to know about chemistry and physics and I don’t know any of these things. And it was very overwhelming. And that probably blocked me a lot because I didn’t want to face the things that I wasn’t good at. So I would focus on like section one, which I was really good at and not the best writer, but I was like, well, I can come up with ideas to write an essay. those sorts of things. Did that, went and did the exam and kind of fell flat on my face. I was like, all right, didn’t pass section three, scraped through section one and section two. And I went, all right, that didn’t work. I just need more time.

Dr Tom (11:34)

Yeah, yeah. I’ll do it in a year. I’ll give myself more time to study. More time to progress.

Mare Forfa (11:40)

More time to freak out about it. I need more time to think that I can’t do this.

Ashleigh (11:45)

Yeah, and I was like, it’s because I’m working too much. It’s because I just crammed it all at the end and didn’t want to, because you get overwhelmed by it all and put off those things that you don’t want to challenge yourself with. And then you go, oh, I do actually need to look at those and the exams in a month and I need to try and figure that out. So, said it again and same result. So I was like, all right, something’s not working here.

And that was, not passing the second time was a a hard peel to swallow.

Dr Tom (12:23)

Did you study a lot more for that one or was it the same kind of a lead up?

Ashleigh (12:23)

I felt like I did, but I think I just focused in the wrong areas again, still kind of avoiding what was difficult. And I went in and I didn’t believe that I could do it. Like as a real head game. I think when I came on board with you guys and did the Bootcamp and went, this is as much a head game as it is an actual knowledge game. That.

Ashleigh (12:56)

Definitely a few things for me.

Dr Tom (12:56)

Yeah, can you tell us bit more about that? Like, what do you mean? How is it a head game?

Ashleigh (13:02)

So for me, it’s a self-worth and the way that I would let the overwhelming feelings of failing and the fear of failure get into my body before I’d even walk in. So in my head, I’d already kind of gone, I’m probably not gonna pass this, but I’m here and I’m just gonna do it and I’m tired and you know, I had to give up night shifts and not sacrifice all these things in my life. Everything felt really hard. And I just don’t think I was worth, like I didn’t feel like I was worthy of being a doctor. So in reframing that, even though I know I am and everyone around me is going, you’ll be a great doctor, you’ve got this, you’re totally worthy of doing this.

I didn’t realize how much that impacted my head space going in. And then in the exam, I’d come across a question that I didn’t know the answer to and I’d get really stuck on it. And then I might move on, but it would still be ruminating in the back of my head. Then you go into section two and it’s like, all right, time starts now. And all I could hear was everybody else’s keyboard, smacking away a million miles an hour. And I’m no IT guru. Like I still was lucky enough to go through school where it wasn’t a requirement to have to do everything on the computer.

Good handwriting.

Dr Tom (14:25)

Typing with one finger, one finger typing.

Ashleigh (14:28)

I mean, I can do four, I’ve got to look at what I’m doing. And then I feel I’d recently had a diagnosis of ADHD in the last couple of years as well. So was like, it just takes my brain a little bit to connect with my fingers. So my fingers go slower than my brain and then my brain goes a bit in a different direction to other people. So hearing everyone else type, type, type, type, type, type, I’m going, I’m still on my introduction to my first one. That then starts.

Ashleigh (14:57)

chewing in and then that’s coming into the way that I’m writing. Then you go out for your break and you come back for that third section and it was like, I don’t know and then I’m getting out questions about the reproductive cycle of a fly. And I’m like, how is this relevant?

Dr Tom (15:12)

Yes, I forgot that one. Very productive cycle. We’ve had the anatomy of the gills of a fish, the body temperature of a platypus in and out of the water.

Mare Forfa (15:12)

What do mean it’s not relevant?

Ashleigh (15:15)

So thinking then realizing what it was that they’re trying to assess behind all of that. It’s not, do I know how a fly reproduces or the life cycle of that? It’s kind of like, how am I going to face this question that’s difficult and process through it and get to an answer and eliminate the most wrong answers first. And that changed the way I approached the exam. And then trying to disconnect that feeling of coming across that question and going, I don’t know that. I’m just going to flag it, move on. I’ll find what I do know and then work back that way. I think.

I went through, I probably did most of the biology-based questions first, because they were the closest to what was good for me in that section. And then did the physics ones, because that was math-based. And I was like, all right, I’m a little bit better at that. Chemistry was the last one. And I sacrificed a few points where I needed to spend the time on the questions I could answer and be OK with that when I walked out.

Mare Forfa (16:29)

I think it kind of all brings back to that triangle that we really base everything on. So if you think about the triangle, like part of the exam is skill set. Like you’ve got to know your section one, how to, you know, analyze symbolic poetry and you’ve to know reasoning skills to section three, and you’ve got to know a degeneration for section two, you know, like skill set. And, that’s where everyone focuses. But if you look at the triangle, the other two sides of mindset.

And work ethic are just as important as the skill set. And when you realize you can have the skill set and still get things wrong because you’re in, you’re chewing away in your head and have got that massive doubt in yourself and almost disbelief and imposter syndrome. And you can really sabotage yourself that way. Like I feel like a lot of people do that. and just smashing away at improving the skill set doesn’t necessarily help the mindset. Like actively helping the mindset helps the mindset. 

And actively helping your work ethic, which is not just how many hours you put in, that’s what we classify as, you know, good work ethic, but also the quality of the hours and the outcomes of the study. Not just, studied 40 hours this week, I’m amazing. It’s like, what did you do in those 40 hours? How many skills did you improve?

And so when you start and this is the culmination for you, I can see it’s all like coming together in that moment there. That’s what I’m hearing.

Ashleigh (18:03)

Yep, definitely.

Mare Forfa (18:05)

Oh, I love it. then you, so tell me about the third time. What was different or how many times did you see it in total? Awesome. Tell me about the third time.

Ashleigh (18:14)

Third time, I was restricted in time and I was working in Catherine at the time, not too far off like moving up to go. So I had this really small window of where I could go. actually instead of sitting in WA, which is where I was previously, I sat in Darwin and it was a smaller group, smaller room, which was really nice in comparison. 

And then probably felt the same coming out, like a little bit more confident. But again, like you get thrown those big questions, you walk out and you go, I don’t know. And we had to like, the facility where I was, when we came outside for lunch, there wasn’t really anywhere to sit that was cool or shady. And I was feeling a little bit hot and flustered and going, that wasn’t really my best essay, but that’s all right. And normally I’m like, I’m not gonna talk to anyone, but there was this one little tree.

Mare Forfa (19:22)

Everyone.

Ashleigh (19:23)

A few of us getting under here, getting a break.

Dr Tom (19:26)

It’s a Darwin so there’ll probably be crocodiles everywhere else right?

Ashleigh (19:29)

Yeah, just swim in, right?

We sat with someone that looked like they felt how I was feeling, a bit kind of overwhelmed going, because it’s a big emotion when you come out in the middle that you’ve got to kind of almost purge out of your system, have a bit of fuel in your body and then get that energy to go back in and do the last bit. And we just had a really light conversation about life, like where are from? What are you doing here? What like? There was home life, like he was like, oh yeah, my girlfriend’s, know, making dinner for me tonight, like is a good on you, you’ve done it, you’ve got it this time. And I was like, oh, that’s really nice. I’m leaving here, I’m getting on a plane, I’m going home to see mom and dad. So I was like able to get back to Perth for a couple of days, but it was like right at the end of that gamut window. So I was like, all right. So that was nice. And it kind of shifted all of that frustration and whatnot.

Not that I’m suggesting that everyone should go and chat to everyone in the middle, because some people don’t need that. But it, and I don’t normally, but in that moment it was the right thing. Went in, faced that third section and there was just a different feeling this time with the third section, which was my biggest challenge. So always passed the first and second section. It was just that last science based bit that it was like getting the chemistry and whatnot. 

I don’t think it was like the luck of the questions or anything, because I felt just as hard, but I just had a bit more reasoning behind the way that I approached the questions. And I had a better headspace about, okay, well, I know that those two answers are wrong. Now it’s down to two. So now it’s a 50-50 shot of whether I get this right. And then again, focusing on what was a question that was more in my wheelhouse and working backwards from that.

Mare Forfa (21:29)

So it sounds like that was your one. You’re like, okay, I’ve got to apply now. You go through applications. What was the interview process like for you? Did you love it, hate it?

Ashleigh (21:42)

I always thought, like I interview well, because I like to talk and I don’t mind talking about myself and I’m good at engaging other people. And in my mind, was like, oh, as long as I get an interview, I’ll get in. But my Gamsat result was quite low. Like I think it was a 53 or a 54 overall. So I was like, I’m gonna be lucky to get an interview. 

But Tom, as you always said, like just throw your hat in the ring. You never know what’s going to happen and where everyone else is deciding to go. And it might be that time that you just slide on in there. I played the game is what people often ask me. I play the game. So I sat there with that big, I printed it out on A3. The like breakdown of all the different universities and what their requirements are, what the trend is at their scores, who gives extra bonuses for being a rural student and a already working in the industry or having done this or that. 

So sat down and I thought about geographically where I wanted to be, which universities I aligned with. There were some that I was like, just don’t align with that university or that particular area. And I was like, I’m doing a disservice to everyone if it became a doctor there, because I wouldn’t enjoy it. I wouldn’t engage all those sorts of things. So I chose Deakin as my first preference and then got a interview with Deakin.

So I was like, cool. And then I went, okay, I know that I said that I’m good at interviewing and I think I’m good at interviewing, but maybe I’m not.

Dr Tom (23:22)

Yes, it sounds like you followed the process and you threw your hat in ring, you printed the thing out, you analysed the process as to how to best order your preferences, you got an interview and you’re like, holy moly, what do I do now?

Ashleigh (23:37)

So that was a good fun process being up in at this point, mean, go so we’re remote top end Northern Territory area. I’m like, all right, I don’t have time to go and get a new interview outfit or like find the perfect spot to have it. I just had to hope that my internet reception was good enough on the day. And I have a particular shirt that I wore for my grad connect with Nursing for that interview that I carry around with me obviously when I travel. Don’t know why, was obviously for this interview. So pulled that out, put that on, I felt really good. I made sure that I’d had like a breakfast that morning that made me feel good. I wanted to feel confident in myself, but I had fully lent into my why, which is something that Mare, we had been speaking about at that time.

And behind my station where they’re like, you’re not allowed to stuff on out and you can’t read notes and blah, blah, blah. Behind my laptop up on my wall was this display of all of my wires and reframing like I am worthy of becoming a doctor and all of this like plastered, was like two thirds of my wall basically of just little sticky notes and stuff that I’d written and rephrased everything. So was like a couple near the bathroom entry, a couple on the way out of my bedroom door couple in the kitchen and on the door on the way out. So I moved them all to behind the computer screen. And I had this scenario where it was all Zoom based and you got dropped into a session and then you just got moved along. There was no timer. You just kind of had to wing it sort of thing. And I was really grateful that my first station was the, I had to interact with the patients.

Mare Forfa (25:26)

Wing it.

Ashleigh (25:35)

the person that was assessing plus someone that I had to be talking to, which I know other people kind of just asked about that particular scenario and to talk about how they do it. But I actually got to talk to that person, yeah, got an actor and got to respond to that. And in that moment, defaulted to a lot of the nursing skills and qualities that I have of kind of reassuring someone that was freaking out, couldn’t get on a plane and we had to get on this plane to go somewhere.

Dr Tom (25:48)

Have an active day.

Ashleigh (26:05)

Present something. So I was like, all of this and then I remembered distinctly the last thing I said was, should we go inside and grab a cup of tea? Because cup of tea fixes everything. And then it’s like, screen goes black. What have you done?

Mare Forfa (26:22)

Good.

Ashleigh (26:23)

So then that’s that moment of going, oh, I think I just shot myself in the foot. Which again, that’s, maybe it was, clearly it was because I got into medicine, but I was able to go, all right, next question. And just really kind of go, the person before me doesn’t know how my last questionnaire went, like the last session went. So it was like, all right.

Dr Tom (26:29)

Or maybe that was the perfect way to end it, who knows?

Ashleigh (26:51)

But this is kind of fast-paced and yeah, I don’t have any issues with talking. So that was not my problem really, but it was, I did go in with a few really key things about myself, key things about medicine, key things about my why and aligning myself with that particular university prior to the interview to make sure that what did come out of my mouth was genuine and true to who I am.

Ashleigh (27:22)

And I felt prepared enough to talk so I wasn’t really like sweaty and nervous. And I’d set my space up to be inviting and not distracting and all of those fun tips that I’d never thought of before, before doing the bootcamp, like to go, that actually would make a difference.

Mare Forfa (27:40)

The 1 % is that’s what I call it. It’s like, it’s not the make or break. You don’t get in because of that, but also you just want to make it as seamless as possible for yourself. So setting up your environment. And I think it’s actually really interesting because this third time that you’ve sat at this third time, like this interview that you’re having, you’re in a different, even like emotional environment or like friend environment, because you have.

Yes, you had before your best friend GP and you know, the doctors you’re working with out in the hospital, but like just being in, like you are the sum of the five people you hang around the most. So hang around people that are where you want to be and you’re going to get there in some way, or form eventually. And people that are kind of pushing and guiding you in that direction. it feels like, I mean, it worked. Let’s face it. It worked.

Ashleigh (28:29)

Yeah, it was hard work, and it was definitely, the life balance was a challenge.

Mare Forfa (28:36)

How’d you do it? how did you? Cause this is something that people have, like, do you just make it work? Did you have a strategy? Did you throw all the spaghetti at the wall and see what stuck? Like what happened?

Ashleigh (28:39)

Good question.

I feel like that’s how I started. It was just throwing it all and see if it stuck and it didn’t, so it wasn’t cooked. I did a few things. I was really open with my manager at the time and the lady that wrote our rostering. And I was like, look, this is what I’m doing. I’m really determined and focused to get this done. I understand that we’ve got like audits going on at work and all of the other things.

Dr Tom (28:51)

I’m gonna sit.

Mare Forfa (28:53)

Amen.

Ashleigh (29:17)

And whatnot. But I asked for a bit of consideration in the rostrum because I’ve always been really flexible. was, well, still am like single, don’t have kids. So my requirements for outside life were really flexible. Plus I’m somewhere where it’s not like I’ve got a whole bunch of friends that are outside the hospital. So it was like not huge big party weekends, but there would always be something going on that you’d want to go to. 

So I’d made that decision within myself that I would sacrifice a few social eventS but not completely cut them off. And I asked for my rostering to be a little bit more consistent and cluster shifts together. So I know normally we’d only do three shifts together. Could I stretch it to the four? Cause they were 12 hour shifts at that point. And that would allow me more time like in the afternoon or to fit in my little pockets. 

And I broke it into bite-sized pieces because it was so overwhelming and there was so much to get through that I went, okay, this is like, can’t just kind of pick up the whole steak and bite into it. You’ve got to chop it up into bits that you can tackle. So I timetabled every like end of roster. I’d sit down and I’d block that in because that was like a non-negotiable, had to go to work, had to support myself to fill that role.

Dr Tom (30:33)

I love the food analogies. This is probably from your chef background.

Ashleigh (30:52)

And then I was like, okay, I have an hour window here. Let’s do half an hour. And I’m going to base it on section three. Like this is a day where it’s a challenge myself kind of day. So section three, chemistry, these questions. So I’d start with some questions, figure out where there’s what I kind of need to top my knowledge base up on, and then do that, go back and do a couple more questions. 

And then that would be that chunk done and then kind of mixed it up as well so it wasn’t all just one topic at one time, trying to keep it entertaining for myself because I get distracted. And then I had to give myself time off. So it was like a period of time where I really had to schedule my life and everything was kind of down to a schedule, which doesn’t sound all that exciting.

Dr Tom (31:45)

You’re going to do

it and he probably is now as a medical student too right down to the 15 minutes you know what happens every 15 minutes of your day

Ashleigh (31:48)

It’s exactly the same.

Yeah.

So it was, I could then enjoy time off to do stuff for me that meant that I was probably a little less burnt out going into GAMSAT compared to every other time where it just was like hell for leather, particularly at the end, say a prayer, walk in, go and do it. Whereas this time I was a bit more fulfilled and felt like I’d taken it chunk at a time, got to the end and went, all right, well, I’ve covered everything. So.

Dr Tom (32:22)

Okay, well I’m gonna dob you in with something because I remember, correct me if I’m wrong, but we would follow up with you and check in with you and it was radio silence on your end. But we would just keep checking in, checking in and eventually we’re like, all right, that’s enough. you’re like, no, no, no, let’s keep going with that. I’m listening, I just start replying.

Ashleigh (32:34)

Yeah, it was one of those things where it’s like overwhelming to check in because you’re like, I fully like I make it sound like it was so easy. It wasn’t. I would make a plan and I would get halfway through it and realize that I’m behind. you’re like, I don’t want to admit that I’m not hitting the goals that I’ve set for myself. And that like was hard to kind of go, I’ve got all of this and it’s a lot to do, but I’m not hitting it. 

And then of course, your self-worth comes back into it. And so I’d even feel guilty about working on my self-worth because I was like, well, that’s taken away from the time that I could work on the Gamsat stuff. And it’s something that I’ve probably realized like through med school, like I’m really not good at asking for help. So coming to you guys in the first place was a huge step. And then, I probably could have made it a lot easier on myself if I had it checked in.

Dr Tom (33:48)

No, think it’s just everyone goes as a different journey. Yes, there are some similarities, but everyone’s a bit different. you know, I tease, but it’s okay. Like we still get students who don’t respond, but they’re still paying attention. And they’re using that as a prompt to keep going, to stay on the path because people cannot respond to

Mare Forfa (34:06)

Fuel.

Dr Tom (34:13)

Yeah, yeah, no, I get it.

Mare Forfa (34:13)

No one’s journey is better than anyone else’s. It’s just your journey. And like the point of sharing your journey is because there will be people that resonate with exactly what you’re saying. They’re like, that’s me. I don’t, I don’t actually want to talk to you, but I do want you to reach out, like, and make sure I’m doing it. And then if I’m doing it great, and if I’m not doing it well, that’s kind of going to be kicking the ass, even if I don’t reply, like, not the way I would do it, but doesn’t.

Ashleigh (34:27)

Yep.

Dr Tom (34:38)

And it’s, yeah, we don’t hassle, like, yeah, it’s, we’re like, okay, what happened? How can we help you through this stuff? How can we work through? And then we’re out of we do a kick butt, but that’s when it’s appropriate, right?

Ashleigh (34:43)

Definitely.

Ashleigh (34:52)

Exactly. And it’s that accountability. And it was like, yeah. And sometimes I didn’t even realize that I wasn’t where I wanted to be or like that I’d kind of let things drop off because things at work were really busy or I just was on a run of night shifts. And then it would like work out that if they were all busy night shifts and I needed sleep and I was like, I kind of need to prioritize that because I still need to function. And it was not easy, like it’s not an easy task to take on. And that’s without having the requirements of like kids or a partner or anyone else to go to.

Dr Tom (35:33)

think working full time and shifts is a big deal. People at uni don’t realise that, what a blessing it is to have uni and Gamsat versus full time work and the exhaustion that comes with that and Gamsat study.

Ashleigh (35:37)

Huge.

Mare Forfa (35:49)

And rural work, like you’re not in a big hospital where you just like, it’s time to check out, drop my stuff and get out of here. Like you haven’t got enough people. there’s someone like you’re staying back, your people that I know all of my nurses say the ones that work really are like, they’re always asking me for more shifts always because they’re just so understaffed. So like we get it. We, we know it’s a big thing. let’s then move on though tO med school. Tell us a little bit when you started what it was like. What’s that Jamie Bean like?

Ashleigh (36:22)

That was amazing. And I still remember getting my offer. That was the biggest mind-blowing moment ever.

Mare Forfa (36:33)

What happened, tell me.

Dr Tom (36:34)

Tell us all about it.

Ashleigh (36:35)

So I was in visiting friends in Cairns and I’m with a lady that I call like my second mum, who actually like is good friends with my mum now. The two of them together just make me laugh. And I was with her and another friend of ours and this other friend had just had her offer for a unit accepted and she was flying back to work in Gove. So we went out for breakfast and we’re enjoying our time and rudely of me, I just…picked up my phone and checked my emails. Like I wouldn’t normally do it. It just kind of was this over coming feeling. I was like, I’m just gonna do this. And I looked at it and just jaw drop. I’m reading the congratulations. Notre Dame, Fremantle wants you to come and like join us to do med school. And then my friend, like my good friend that’s like my second mom looks at me and she goes, you got in.

Dr Tom (37:29)

I’m getting goosebumps, you tell me this.

Mare Forfa (37:30)

I know, I’m just like, I’m so emotional.

Ashleigh (37:32)

We’re in the middle of the cafe and she just starts screaming and I’m still dumbfounded. And then our other friends like, wait, you got in. And I was like, I get, was like, can you read this? Like, you gotta make sure that I’m reading your line. And it was like two days after my birthday as well. So was like this beautiful little thing. We screamed. The people at the cafe were like, you okay? Oh, it’s happy. And then.

Dr Tom (37:47)

Right.

Ashleigh (38:01)

My friend’s like, she just got into med school. And then we called my mom and, and this big, beautiful moment. And I was just like, a bit shocked. And it was back here in WA, back same university where I did my nursing. There’s just this beautiful alignment. I was like, yes, I get to be back around my mom and my dad and my sisters and all of that. Come back and walk in that first day. And I’m just waiting for the tap on the shoulder.

Mare Forfa (38:30)

No.

Ashleigh (38:30)

The whole part, like the whole first 12 months, like, I’m waiting for someone to go, we’re really sorry. We sent it to the wrong Ashleigh. You’re not supposed to be.

Dr Tom (38:36)

You know, it’s funny because you’re not the first person who’s actually… I can’t remember who it was but similar kind of a thing though, just waiting that actually we made a mistake. Will these three people please stand up and leave now?

Ashleigh (38:49)

Yeah, I like to check my emails being like, yeah, no.

Mare Forfa (38:57)

Not only, wasn’t who, it’s like no one has said that they didn’t have that experience. Everybody has said that that’s how they felt. So I just wonder if like the whole of the med school like first year, it’s just like everybody has this collective experience of like, are you sure?

Dr Tom (39:09)

Yeah, no.

Ashleigh (39:16)

Did you want me? Did you actually look at my interview? I don’t know.

Dr Tom (39:20)

Yeah.

Mare Forfa (39:21)

Well the funny thing was you interviewed with Deacon and Notre Dame gave you one so that’s really interesting and that’s…

Dr Tom (39:26)

Yeah, someone stands up and goes, Ashleigh, would you like to come and have a cup of tea?

Ashleigh (39:31)

You can’t…

Mare Forfa (39:31)

Yeah, everything’s better this way.

Ashleigh (39:34)

Not the compass, no.

Dr Tom (39:34)

You’re out of here. That was a funny way to end an interview.

Ashleigh (39:37)

Yeah, so that was the other thing, like everyone been like, oh, there’s a little bit of talk about the interview process for Notre Dame. And I was like, I didn’t, I didn’t interview for Notre Dame. They’re like, what? What do you mean you didn’t interview for Notre Dame? I was like, well, they were my second preference. I interviewed at Deakin. And they’re like, oh, I was like, that was my way in. It was like, needed to get all the extra points good. Then first year of med, that whole year, like I was waiting for that to happen.

Like for someone to come and tap me on the shoulder. And there was some big personalities to balance out in the problem-based learning classes. And I felt like I didn’t know anything and that I was struggling to take things on board. And then I would think that I had it and then I’d go and I’d explain it on the board. Cause we all get up and explain concepts on the board and then they’d go, yeah, and repeat it back to me in like a foreign language, which I’m like, I already work in this industry and I have no idea what you just said to me.

Dr Tom (40:49)

Was this based on the sciences and that kind of stuff or was it the clinical skills?

Ashleigh (40:52)

Yeah, because it’s all going back to like what’s normal, trying to figure out your understanding of everything. And I put in like a lot of work, a lot of hours and got to the end clinically, aced it, fine, happy with it. It was just the written exams that I fell short in that first year. And they went, best thing to do is to repeat the year. We’re not going to push you through.

And I was back on contract in Go. So I’m back with all of these beautiful people who are like, how was your first year of med? And I was like, it was really great. I’m just waiting for results. And then I get the call and just like stopped breathing for a good minute.

Ashleigh (41:40)

That was, I guess, the tap on the shoulder that I’d been waiting for all year. And I think that was a huge thing because my approach to the learning was what’s clinically relevant. That’s all year round. I’m like, what’s clinically relevant? That’s what I based how deep to go with everything on. Not what are they asking me? What are they testing? It’s two different things.

Ashleigh (42:10)

The comments I kept getting was, you’re going to make a great doctor. You’ve got the clinical reasoning. We can see it. It’s all there, but you need to understand the basics and get the right level of that science behind you to move on to the next year. So I had a really big decision to make. Do I repeat first year? Do I pull out and just go back to working? Cause it’s another year financially that I’m not working full time.

Mare Forfa (42:35)

So that was an option for you. An option was leaving.

Ashleigh (42:38)

Yeah. And going back, like, I enjoy nursing, I love nursing. I could go back and do that. I could go and become a clinical nurse or later down the track become a nurse practitioner.

Mare Forfa (42:40)

Interesting.

Ashleigh (42:51)

And I went, can’t do that. Like I couldn’t do that to myself. I couldn’t walk away and go, no. I was like, just had a year of figuring out how to not do it. See how I kind of look at it now. I go, I figured out what not to do, which just made my last year, that next attempt closer to success because I knew one way how to not do it. So it’s like, that path doesn’t work. Let’s try something new.

Mare Forfa (43:21)

Yes. So you’re reframing as you go to go, okay, all of this shit stuff’s just happened. How do I pull myself together so that the next time is better? You don’t, I’m sure you had a period of wallowing as we all would, right? Where we just go, oh, well it’s crashing down. What do I do? Looked at all of the options and went, no, I’m, I’m choosing to see the positive in this. That now I know what not to do. Let’s focus on what to do, love it.

Ashleigh (43:51)

Yeah, and really changed up. Cause I feel like by the time we got to the end of that first year, I was figuring out the learning style for learning med that works for me because everybody’s different. And I was trying different things from other people and nothing was really sticking and nothing was really engaging enough for me to retain the information. And I realized there’s some things that you just have to do, like getting an Anki deck and doing the repetitive recognition, active recall.

You just have to do it because there’s so much content. Best way to keep.

Dr Tom (44:25)

Yeah, it’s very different to GAMSAT preparation, right? Did you find that? It’s very different where it’s in GAMSAT, it’s like it’s not about memorizing, it’s about understanding and reasoning skills, but in medicine, they’re just a lot of memorizing. It’s just mostly, mostly memorizing.

Ashleigh (44:29)

Very different.

Mare Forfa (44:40)

The first year.

Ashleigh (44:44)

Yeah, and I was trying to like reason my way through everything, which gets you so far.

Dr Tom (44:48)

Yeah, which is part of it down the track as well, but early on, nevermind.

Ashleigh (44:53)

It’s just good to remember. So it was like, I had all these really good skills that I have that are into play this year. And it’s really great. But at that time, trying to implement those with that. And I was like, it’s not working. And then you just feel really down on yourself. again, it was just a roller coaster of self-worth and am I worthy of being here? it, what have I done? I’d ask myself that regularly and still do. What have I done? got like, I could be, you know, potentially

Mare Forfa (44:59)

Yeah.

Ashleigh (45:23)

A third of the way to a home loan deposit if I hadn’t have gone and done med or all these other things I don’t want to do in life. And I go, yeah, but I’m still enjoying the process as much as it’s kicked me while I’m down. It’s definitely where I need to be and what I should be doing. And

Dr Tom (45:38)

So how was first, so you did the first year again. How was the difference the second time?

Ashleigh (45:45)

I knew the depth I had to go to and where my weaknesses were. And again, I had kind of shied away from doing the things that challenged me and that were hard in that first year. Like I’d fallen back into some old habits. And so I again decided I need someone for accountability. So I got a friend of mine who was then in second year.

Mare Forfa (46:02)

Interesting. Interesting.

Ashleigh (46:15)

To effectively become my tutor and keep me accountable. And we rerate questions together. And was a huge commitment on her part to help me out. But she’s like, it’s actually really good for me because I’m recalling all of this and it’s actually helping with second year content. So she would help me write questions and then would write an answer key. And then I would go away from those questions, do a different block, come back, answer those questions as if like they were exam questions. Because a lot of it too is about…

Ashleigh (46:44)

I had, by the end of the year, I had the knowledge, but I couldn’t articulate it in a way in that exam pressure that corresponded to show that I knew enough of it. So it was like, all right, how do I incorporate the correct language and in a way and depth and conciseness that shows and demonstrates how much of the content I actually know.

Mare Forfa (47:10)

So what I’m hearing you say is if we go back to like the triangle of the skillset, the mindset, the work ethic, it’s exactly the same triangle as the GAMS app, but the skillsets different. So you’re not focused on, you know, chemistry, biology, physics, or essay writing, all the skills change, but you still got to work on your mindset the whole time and pulling yourself out of the gutter when you go into that, I’m not good enough mode. And then the work ethic is the same. You still have to juggle the same stuff. It’s not like,

Mare Forfa (47:40)

You all of a sudden have no bills to pay and you know, everything’s hunky dory. You still got to, you know, dedicate the hours and do the right thing within the hours. That’s what I’m hearing there. The right thing with the studies. Amazing.

Dr Tom (47:54)

So were you

working while studying medicine? How have you managed that?

Ashleigh (48:00)

I’ve tried to, I’ve just been faced with challenge after challenge. So I signed up with an agency and every time I go to log into the agency website to pick up a shift, because I’m available to do one and like put it in, there was always an issue. was like, oh, this online learning courses, a new one that we’ve put in and you’ve got to do that before you can pick up a shift. All right, do that. And then you’ve got to wait 24 to 48 hours for that to upload before you can get access back. And then…it’ll come to like the long break and go to log in. And for whatever reason, my account seems to always just deactivate. And like, I’ve just keep struggling. So that in of itself created a lot of stress for me. Cause I’m like, Oh yeah, I’ll go and work in my, two week mid semester break. And then I get there and then the system’s not working for me. And they’re like, well, no one else has an issue. It’s just you. I was like, okay, cool. Well, can we sort that out? And then it takes two weeks to sort out. And then I’m like,

Dr Tom (48:52)

That’s not nice.

Ashleigh (48:59)

Okay, well now I’m back in the community. And being an agency nurse, I’ve never experienced that from being on that side. I’ve always had agency nurses come to me and I’m so grateful for them. And they go, that was a good shift. I usually get treated really poorly and I’d heard it, I’d seen it in bigger hospitals. And then I went out and did it and I was like, I don’t wanna do that when I’m particularly last year, like repeating the year.

Mare Forfa (49:00)

Right, 7M.

Ashleigh (49:28)

and I’ve got enough stress on my plate and things to overcome that unfortunate sort of toxic environment for agency nurses. was like, had a couple of bad experiences and I went, all right, I think I’d actually prefer to just really budget what I get financial support for and step away and I’ll go on a contract at the end of the year and top the coffers back up basically. So it’s been…difficult, but then this year I’ve got a slightly different approach. It’s like, I’ll keep my registration up enough hours for that. And then looking into doing something a little bit more low key to help financially help out with all of the cost of living. But it’s finding something that’s not consuming my brain space.

Mare Forfa (50:19)

I mean, you do have some good skill sets in the kitchen, just saying like. So then let’s look back and think, like, I want you to think about who might be listening to this. There’s a ton of other nurses, healthcare practitioners, know, physios, ambos, chiropractors, like a whole ton of people kind of where you were before, who were dreaming of being doctors.

Ashleigh (50:23)

True.

Mare Forfa (50:49)

They may be feeling unsure. They may be feeling overwhelmed. What would be like that one piece of advice that you would share with them?

Ashleigh (50:59)

Cool.

It’s a really good question.

I do it, if it’s what you want to do it. But the thing that’s coming to my head right now is it’s not even something that I thought about, but something that my dad says is like, choose your heart. So yeah, you’re going to have to make a few sacrifices and it’s going to be challenging. But if it’s what you want, then that challenge is worth it. And you could live with the heart of knowing that you never did it, or you can live with the heart of going through it.

And failure is a part of the process and we all feel like we’re not worthy of being a doctor or pursuing whatever it is that you want to do in life but you are worth it and just look after yourself. Give yourself time off.

Mare Forfa (52:12)

I love it. I love how you’re saying failure is part of the process because I like speak to so many students that feel like they have to like be perfect at all time and never get questions wrong. And it’s great to see resilience in action because if we don’t see resilience in real life, how do we then learn resilience? Right. So the fact that there have been challenges for you and you’ve bounced back and to me, I don’t care how many times anyone

falls over because we all have failures in life. I’m certainly not a perfect human being by any stretch of the imagination. But what I do like to measure is your bounce back rate. Like when something goes wrong, do we wallow for a year, a month, a week, a day, an hour, a minute? Like where are we in the hole and how quickly can we bounce back out? So I absolutely love that.

Dr Tom (53:05)

Yeah, and also just to add to that, what lessons do we get out of that as well? Because that’s so that we don’t repeat those mistakes and we’re better for it moving forward. And I think that’s kind of what you’ve been doing along Ash, is just kind of reflecting, all right, what can I do better? How can I improve? And like you said, with your second time through first year, you had a study buddy, you implemented these different techniques, which will make you better moving forward.

Ashleigh (53:33)

It’s just, how can I, what can I change? What could I, like, what have I learned? And usually it’s, what have I learned what not to do? I can’t change that to make it something that works. And yeah, just, like, there was definitely a grieving process in all of those stages, like failing Gams out the first time. And then coming up with the, like I told myself, well, it’s just because it was a short period of time and it was working, it was this and like.

Ashleigh (54:03)

making excuses, but then you’ve got to reflect and take ownership for things as well and go, I’m part of the problem and this is my challenge and this is what I need to overcome. I think.

Yeah, I wish more people were open about it. And it was something going repeating like first year for the second time that I could have very easily sat back and gone, this is a hi, I’m Ashleigh. This is my first time here. And like, besides the tutors, like if that’s the way I wanted to play it, they would go along with it. But I very openly from the start went, hi, I’m Ashleigh I’m repeating. I failed the written exam. But

Ashleigh (54:48)

I’m here to do it again. And if you want to know what not to do, more than happy to share it.

Mare Forfa (54:53)

I love that. I love that. And so many people are going to be inspired by this. You’re like showing so many people that he’s amazing. I love that you like turned around. I think Taylor Swift made a song about that. She’s like, I’m the problem. It’s me.

Ashleigh (55:08)

Yeah.

Dr Tom (55:09)

Yeah, and on that point, I think it’s really important because if we it’s very easy to blame other things to kind of relieve that pain of accepting that it’s you. And in the moment, it might feel a bit better. But then you have no control to actually make any changes moving forward because you’ve just completely released that control to all these outside factors, which may or may not be true. Usually it’s not but you can.

How we respond to it but if we can kind of take ownership of that, okay, what am I going to do differently? What can I improve? Then you can actually move forward and be better for it and get a different result next time. Otherwise it’s just a leaf blown in the wind and go where you might, you know.

Mare Forfa (55:49)

Yeah.

Ashleigh (55:52)

Definitely.

Mare Forfa (55:52)

That is so cool. Well, I think on that we should wrap up. Was there any final words of wisdom that you wanted to leave the listeners with today?

Mare Forfa (56:04)
Do it. I believe in you. Be open and prepared to leave behind what you think you know. Just embrace the journey, take on new experiences and challenges. It might not happen the first time. For me, it was the third time, and then the second time. But just keep chasing your dreams because you only get one life.